a few notes on a scandal
May 19th, 2009We did think that there might be a little article coming out soon, featuring an interview with us and some of our thoughts on the recent Four Corners story, on Matthew Johns being stood down from Channel Nine and the Storm, and on the issues of sexual politics, sexual violence and rugby league that the story raised.
But as always, ya can’t control the media, right? We have no idea if or when it will be published, so we wanted to explain why we haven’t said something about it here as yet.
We try not to talk about league scandals too much on Errol, not because we don’t care – that’s definitely not the case. Rugby League is very dear to our hearts and any hint of a scandal kills us in the soul. Kiki has talked about bad behaviour in general in league before (and it’s worth a read). We are certainly opinionated, sometimes really confused, about these issues.
The main reason we avoid discussing them is simply that Errol is so lighthearted. One of the commenters on Cricket Australia called our columns ‘joywork’ (one of the best compliments of our lives so far).
We would be mortified if anyone came onto our site and thought we were discussing any of this without the seriousness and the respect that it deserves. And let’s be honest, wouldn’t you think that if you saw a discussion of sexual violence next to Intern John-John photoshopped in a cowboy hat?
Anyone who saw ‘Clare’ on Four Corners or Phil Gould speaking on the Footy Show knows that these cases are hard enough on everyone involved without feeling like people are taking the piss out of them.
What we’re saying is there’s really place for every discussion. And sometimes context is really important. But if you do want to know what we think, or if you have a suggestion of where it might be appropriate – please let us know. Maybe it’s the arts student in all of us, but we think the more discourse, the better.
We can’t comment on the sexual side of footy culture. But from our first-hand experience – despite a few jibes from footy fans – our interactions with players, ex-players, coaches and administrators have been nothing but positive. They have been respectful and extremely encouraging of what we do on Errol.
Whether we have just been lucky, we can’t say, but those kind of examples will be a massive part of any changes being made in the game’s culture. Since the introduction of the Playing by the Rules program in 2004, a lot of changes already have been made at some clubs.
In the meantime, we’re gonna keep doing what we do, because we have seen first-hand all the positive impacts league can have – especially in country areas - in creating community, supporting young people, and just giving a bit of entertainment. We are 100% committed to supporting, promoting and adoring the goodness in footy. Because trust us, it’s there.
Meanwhile, please leave us a comment with any of your suggestions or to tell us what you think! (nothing that violates libel laws pls. Deleting offensive comments is tiiiring).
kiki
sassy
lozzy
interns
We want chilly-willy!
Well said *pats back*
No, but seriously. It is nice to be able to come here and read the positive aspects of the game that get lost in all the crap.
It gave me the shits the other day reading in Danny Weidler’s column about ZOMG mini is AMAAZZZINNG going to east leagues club for a fan’s birthday party.
Yeah, it is nice of him. But you know, he lives at bondi so all he had to do was catch the 380 a couple of stops and hang out and eat free lunch.
Howsabout Justin Poore, giving up his off season to build houses on the other side of the world (which Sassy wrote about late last year). Being a nice guy shouldn’t be such a novelty that it’s written about in the Gossip section of the sunday paper, and athletes (in ALL sports) having sex shouldn’t be news. Let’s hope some sort of standard has been set now and at least some of these guys learn how to treat PEOPLE. Not just women. It’s about having respect for yourself too.
Girls,
I think there have been more than enough media outlets who have attempted to take the moral high ground viewpoint throughout their reporting of this scandal, so I don’t think it’s necessary for you to add further white noise to the serious side of the issue.
Perhaps your contributions & insight might be welcomed into the debate by demonstrating the respectfulness of the other 97% of 1st graders through blogging about your enjoyable experiences associated with, as a very recent example, the Country Origin team. Obviously you have, but you get my drift.
I feel there’s a real void here by not having an outlet that informs people that the overwhelming majority of the code can go out socially with women, treat them with respect, behave appropriately & wake up the next morning with their reputations intact. I think that would go someway towards balancing the ledger in this debate & I feel this is sorely needed.
When did being a well-paid (or not as well-paid, in some cases) athlete mean that you were expected to stop acting like a human being?
Hear hear, couldn’t have said it better myself (no, i really couldn’t since words and me don’t like each other as much as i would like)
In my limited RL experience and I guess it is different since i’m in Melbourne, has been beyond positive. It has been part of the reason I have grown to love this game to the level that I do.
I would hate to think that one of my friends or anyone would be loathe to go to a RL game because all they see are these negative stories every week.
I think people have taken their morals and made them the centre of this ‘saga’ and have being serving their own personal agenda. I quite sick of it all. It was swine flu one week, mattty johns the other. Wonder what it will be next week..
Although your work is truly joyful it is also passionate and educational (how else would i know what players true nicknames are and hello hot man news!) and I think its what RL needs more of… where is your tv deal already!
I think what Phil Gould was right on the money. Andrew Voss too.
I also thought Media Watch this Monday night was worth viewing just to get to the bottom of all the media bullshit talking.
Anyway. I think men are men. Rugby League is a good representation. You have your good guys and you have your bad guys. It’d be nice if they were able to weed the bad guys out (and their outdated attitudes) from the beginning.
I think the hardest thing about this whole ‘scandal’ is that it was so long ago. Over time attitudes and behaviours have changed. How can the NRL be criticised too harshly when in that time they’ve really mad an effort when it comes to educating their players?
Another thing, I think the way things were worded in the Four Corners special (for legal reasons) made a lot of people think this whole thing was about group sex. It wasn’t, it was about rape. And it wasn’t that the police found Matthew Johns and the rest of the Cronulla players involved innocent and thus didnt charge them, they just found they didn’t have enough evidence to proceed with charges. As in, it was their word against hers. And it would be easily fought in court. A lot of people, it seems, including the Murdoch owned newspapers (surprise surprise) arent reading between the lines and have been misinformed. The idiocy of the average Aussie never ceases to amaze me!
I don’t want to start anything at all, but i have to totally disagree. I feel the other way. I don’t believe a woman simply because she is a woman. I like to look at both sides and all facts then made my own judgement. I think a lot of other facts have come out that people seem to fob off or not really report on that sheds more light onto the situation and does question her story.
I think it is utter stupitdy to believe someone simply because they are a woman. I feel this whole situation may have hindered women who have been attacked and/or raped from coming foward and having any credibility in the mdia/society. My concern lies with them and I hope their stories can be the ones that gain the most attention ( in a good way).
The police certainly seemed to believe her. They just couldnt do much about it. But they believed her enough to pursue it … to a point. It’s very common for offenders not to be charged and for them not to go to court. It’s hard enough for it to be the word of one woman against one man, even harder if it’s one woman against 12 men.
Some of the so called facts that have come out in the media were found by Media Watch to be untrue/lies or just biased speculation.
Hazy, how can you say you like to look at all the facts, when you don’t know what all the facts are? The “facts” you think you know about “Claire” are mostly second and third-hand accounts that have been sought-out by reporters with their own agendas to push.
I think it’s discraceful to assume any woman’s past behaviour, her apparent willingness, and second-hand reports of her behaviour afterwards automatically make rape an impossibility in so many people’s eyes.
The reason women are hindered in coming forward when they’ve been raped is not because of people like “Claire”, but rather because people such as yourself have a very narrow understanding of what constitutes rape.
I think you’ve provided an appropriate place right here for people to discuss these issues. Let’s have a say just this once on OhErrol and then leave the discourse to the social commentators and sports writers.
You can tell by the length and tone of the comments that last week hit us hard if we follow rugby league.
But I don’t think it’s worth arguing the pros and cons of the Johns incident any longer – that’s been done to death in heaps of other forums.
We need to acknowledge that this stuff happens with league players and condemn it. And we need to remind ourselves that this stuff happens with many other male groups as well – anyone read Puberty Blues, for instance? Been to a rugger bugger party? Had a swell time with the frat boys at the Halls of Residence?
Then, as others have said, we can point to the positive and fun aspects of league, the players, and the fans.
Whilst all the scandals and drama going on with the NRL really suck, I find that Errol really brings a lighter and funnier aspect to the game. Its a great place to get away from all the drama and read about the good guys that are playing the beloved game. Keep doing what you’re doing girls!
I was wondering whether/when you were going to comment on this.
Because Matthew Johns is a TV personality rather than a footy player, this has really hit the whole of society. I don’t follow NRL but have been watching the Footy Show for a month, to try and get a better idea of what’s going on.
I only saw snippets of the Four Corners program, and can only imagine how “Clare” feels. did she go to the media or did they approach her? and why did she do the interview? Surely it would’ve made it worse, dragging it all up after 7 years – wouldn’t you want to put it behind you?
Every media release associated with this story seems to raise more questions.
It’s great to read this blog and see that every encounter you’ve had with NRL fellas has been positive and polite. The general, non-footy public are only really exposed to the bad things from the sport, which makes you think twice about ever watching a game. It’s very hard to separate the sport from the scandals sometimes.
Girls,
I respect and admire your decision not to comment on the Matty Johns scandel. I think your post has shown what a classy act you girls are! It is great to see women involved in League who have postive experiences with the players and I don’t think this side of league gets exposed enough. Errol makes such a positive contribution to the world of league and lordy our game needs that at the moment! I am over the media taking league to town over absolutely everything that they can get their hands on i.e Willy peeing on the hotel wall. Who cares? Does this not happen every day at every pub? Is there not bigger things in the world? I feel sorry for the woman in the Matty Johns incident but I believe she needs to accept responsibility as well for the incident and I don’t think singleing out only one of the players involved and destroying his life was helpful to anyone. Anyway, I could go on forever! Good work guys, keep it up.
Assuming we are talking about group sex and not rape… I think it comes down to the treatment of the girl after the fact. I would say often the girl is willing but the way they treat her after (belittling her, calling her a slut and generally making her feel dirty) is most likely the grounds for the girl to feel violated afterwards and probably the key grounds for her complaints.
If, after their group sex shenanigans, the players involved were gentlemen and treated her like a person, not an object used only for their sexual pleasure I would wager there would be much less “buyers remorse” so to speak.
In essence it does come down to the poor treatment of women. This shit happens in plenty of other sports, maybe league players just don’t have the presence of mind to shmooze things over.
Girls,
There is no need for the comments on the Matty Johns scandal. The media have already had thier 2 cents worth and in the end we are all sick of seeing the game we love dragged through the mud, tarnished again and again.
I have supported footy since I was a little girl going and watching my brothers play and my dad, and I am a proud league fan. I am just glad that somewhere within the media there is something that can be taken in a light-hearted positive way (you errol girls) and I am glad you didnt dignify it with a response, sometimes the lack of words is better then speaking.
(p.s for all concerned I am out of hospital and back at home resting up
)
well i was saying to the girls last night, it’s like public and private schools – public always has a worse reputation even though the same shit, if not worse sometimes, is happening in private. it’s just not talked about as much.
it’s so much easier to say ‘tsk tsk not again’ about a code that everyone already thinks is deviant. especially in the media.
Let’s hope some sort of standard has been set now and at least some of these guys learn how to treat PEOPLE. Not just women. It’s about having respect for yourself too.
indeed
Four Corners have stated that the source of the story originated when “one of the members of the Cronulla Sharks tour to NZ told Four Corners about the events in Christchurch.” The SMH in a story by Brad Walter and Jamie Pandaram today also makes clear that Daniel Niness did not participate and came to her rescue and helped her get home. She apparently signed a statement at the time describing his kindness. So even in this moral minefield of condemnation and conjecture one player did the right thing…but how sad that kindness has to be commented on and not taken for granted.
I was touring Tasmania and did not see the footy show or 4Corners. There was no NRL news on tv there but the Johns interview was broadcast which says something about how far the story has reached. The only upside I can see is that players may finally realise that their actions (illegal or consensual) have far reaching consequences long after they may have ‘grown up’ or changed.
It makes me happy to know that there are decent guys who are willing to stand up and take care of someone vulnerable, who wouldn’t even dream of succumbing to group pressure and do the right thing regardless. Those Sharks players who didn’t participate and looked after her make my heart smile. And the fact that one of them came forward to lift the lid on the seedy underbelly of it all, well, it only makes the story more credible and i think will allow for HUGE change to shake up the NRL (in a positive way.)
Exactly. I’ve always said, If I were in the position of those guys I would probably be doing the same thing. You may as well lap up the attention while you can.
BUT there is no need to make someone feel like shit after.
It’s like any situation, really.
I think it comes down to power in the end and being in that group situation and the pack mentality if one insecure guy makes one offensive comment, it’s almost as if they all can’t help themselves.
anyway, I think the NRL need to rethink their education program.
Soz Nigel Vagana, but I’m pretty sure it’s not too effective. Perhaps they should begin with raising these boys’ self esteems’? It can’t hurt either way.
first of all i wanna say a big THANKYOU to everyone who commented here. it makes me so happy that we have such articulate readers. so thankyou darlings.
And we need to remind ourselves that this stuff happens with many other male groups as well – anyone read Puberty Blues, for instance?
SO TRUE PHILO!! so so true. there is no denying this culture exists to a degree in rugby league, but it is NOT exclusive to league and the way the media implies that makes me so fucking angry.
as for the buyers remorse thing, i agree. if you read carefully what the girls have said about this incident and the Broncos one, it seems to be their real trauma began afterwards when they felt ‘discarded’ and ‘used’.
this is not about legislating or judging peoples sexual practices, no one has the right to judge others sexual morality. it is such a subjective thing.
it is simply about teaching people (footy players and the girls) how to respect their partners. and themselves (as marlo so brilliantly said).
My take on the situation is that when you’re part of a group of guys having sex with one women you’re treating her as an object for the sexual gratification of you and your mates. It’s hard to then show this woman respect as a human being when you’ve just used her for your own pleasure. It’s hardly sex as part of a loving, respectful relationship. And it’s stupid to put yourself in that situation. But people do stupid things, which they come to regret later. The woman obviously regrets ending up in that situation and is still hurting 7 years later. Maybe it wasn’t rape as defined by the legal system. Maybe she did consent at the time, maybe she felt she had no option when surrounded by so many men, I don’t know. But I hope she gets the help she needs so that she can heal, and feel strong and confident in her sexuality, regardless of whether or not the men are charged with a crime.
I’d rather not voice my personal opinion on this scandal on a public forum because i dont know all the facts. I didn’t watch the Four Corners report because i dont have the ABC and i didn’t watch the Tracey Grimshaw interview with the Johns because i find her to be arrogant, patronising and just generally annoying. I have read plenty of articles in the papers and internet and its starting to feel a bit too much like “he said, she said bullshit”
But I’d like to comment on the media and how the media portrays player behaviour. What irks me the most is the way the media in recent times are constantly beating up on rugby league players as though they are the scum of the earth. Some journos dont want to admit this, but as a whole, RL players and the NRL do so much more good for the community then bad. For some reason the large amount of community service and fundraising they do never seems to make the headlines. i dont see how the whole league can be judged by a handful of indiscretions when the amount of charity work by just one NRL team in a year is probably double the amount all the naysayers combined would ever do in their lifetime.
Todd Carney posting naked pictures of himself on his own personal facebook seemed to generate three days of front page coverage. Funny, since even the Gods of Football & and Naked for a Cause calendars can’t seem to generate that much attention. And that calendar features players people actually want to see naked.
And im sick to death of people saying what bad role models RL players are for young kids and that mothers are gonna start pulling kids out of the game because of such bad behaviour. Please. Little Johnny is not gonna grow up and piss on walls because Willie mason does it. More than likely Little Johnny is gonna grow up and piss on walls because Daddy, Uncle Joe & Cousin Mickey all piss on walls. 99.9% of the male population believe the world is their toilet. It’s not news worthy.
Of all the stories that could be told the media appears to only want to report the scandalous. I understand that if a player commits a crime – and i mean a real crime like drink driving, assault etc. (getting asked to leave a pub and generally being a douche is not a crime) then it needs to be reported like any other. But perhaps the media could stick with reporting the facts and only the facts rather than go digging for as much dirt as possible all in the name of a headline.
Anyway i could go on and on because i do love rugby league and i hate see the game being brought down by a handful of players and bad journalism. Wouldn’t it be a shame if the rest of the players started to make themselves less accessible to the fans/media/charities as a result of all the mud raking? Because why should they? If they put in so much time and effort into setting a good example and trying to be someone fans would be proud to look up to, then to have that good name and reputation destroyed because of one or two bad decisions, well I honestly could not blame them for just turning their back on it all.
ps. please dont stop with naked john-john photoshopping. im heading to rainbow in a couple weeks and i know a lady who really enjoys your artwork!!!
emma tom’s column in the australian today is one of the first I’ve seen that I agree with. plus it says what I would wanna say to boys AND girls. ie be careful kittens.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25513405-23375,00.html
go emma!
I agree with you Sassy, agreeing with her it was a great analogy. Disturbingly Miranda Devine’s column in today’s SMH also makes a good point about RL and other codes providing a good outlet for chanelling aggression and learning to rein it in.
I do so hate it though when a day starts by agreeing with Miranda Devine.
I really like that she’s being constructive (plus obviously I agree with her on how unrealistic view of male and female behaviour are … I said something similar over at leagueunlimited).
what’s hard though is I feel like there are some smart and honest women being realistic about these issues (even though the majority might be sticking to finger-pointing). saying yes the world isn’t perfect, and discussing the best way to deal with that and to look after yourself and others.
where are the intelligent men willing to say YES footy players will probably keep having casual and group sex and trying to talk honestly about how to deal with it ethically? just for example, talking about consent and how to navigate it by being more verbal.
even the academics who developed the playing by the rules program are all women. I haven’t seen any male columnists or commentators talking about anything similar.
mans … ? where are you mans?
I feel there’s a real void here by not having an outlet that informs people that the overwhelming majority of the code can go out socially with women, treat them with respect, behave appropriately & wake up the next morning with their reputations intact.
…
When did being a well-paid (or not as well-paid, in some cases) athlete mean that you were expected to stop acting like a human being?
ooh I so agree. well said Michelle.
HAHHAHAH Baz pls tell the other Errol readers that JJ story. its amazing.
(btw the only reason we have stopped photoshopping hats on naked John John is coz we ran out of photos. DAMN)
agree with that too Michelle. well said! *applause*
I wholeheartly agree. I know of some women who have done the same thing and have loved it and seek out these opportunities. I think people have put their morals on this girl which would only add to her anguish.
I think the way she was treated afterwards has made her regret it and feel the way she feels. It is poor treatment and she perhaps expected too much but really a little common decency shouldn’t need to be taught.
Yes, This is what i’m trying to say!
It pains me to think people are getting turned away from RL and other codes using all this business as an oppurtunity to talk up their code. ( hello Andrew Demetriou and Les Murray) when they know it happens not only in their codes but society at large.
i think it should be part of JJ’s community work that he pose naked at least once a month. if for no other reason than to provide you ladies photoshopping opportunities.
the JJ story for other readers.
Few weeks back i was camping with some mates and we had gone into town to get some lunch. Waiting for it i was in the internet cafe/post office checking emails/reading Errol & perving at half naked mans when a lady tapped me on the shoulder and told me that “the material I was viewing was not appropriate for this establishment.”
So I watched her put stuff in her car and head across the street before i printed out 2 coloured A4 prints of naked John-John and stuck them on the windscreen of her car and ran away like a scaredy cat.
Later on we were fishing at the boat ramp and she was there with her kids. She came over and started tearing strips off me. I was drunk and so I did the only thing I could do and laughed at her ranting about naked men and god and Jesus and sinning and damning me to hell before she gave up and left.
One of my mates yelled out after her. “He wasn’t even naked – he had a cowboy hat on!!!”
We didn’t go back into town after that. I wish I stuck around to see her face when she found the pictures.
One of my mates yelled out after her. “He wasn’t even naked – he had a cowboy hat on!!!”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
omg u didnt tell me that part the first time around. oh shit thats literally the best story in the whole world.